I was once again disappointed with Hank Hanegraaff's otherwise good program today (The Bible Answer Man). A caller inquired about Calvinism and Arminianism, wondering which one was correct. Hank answered in a long-winded, roundabout way (as usual), and then said some rather disturbing things.
Hank Hanegraaff admitted that he was raised in a Calvinist home, so he said he "appreciated" that tradition. But then he said the following (not verbatim, but basically), which I respond to below:
Hank H.: "I think it's important that we not make God the Author of evil."
RESPONSE: Calvinists do not say that God is the Author of evil. Read the Westminster Confession of Faith, III:1, and the London Baptist Confession of Faith, 3:1. This is surface theology here. Hank H. should know better, having been raised in a Calvinist home. His parents have probably discussed this with him several times, and I bet that they are probably a little disturbed by his misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the Reformed faith.
Hank H.: "I think it's also important that we don't say that God ordained the Fall of man into sin, or the sinful acts of men."
RESPONSE: Proverbs 16:4; Lamentations 3:37-38; Romans 9; compare 1 Chronicles 21 with 2 Samuel 24; Ezekiel 14:9; etc.
Hank H.: "God made us with free will. He didn't make us unable to respond to the gospel call."
RESPONSE: John 6:44ff; Ephesians 2:1-10; Romans 8:7-8; etc.
Hank H.: "God doesn't create men for destruction and guide them to that path."
RESPONSE: Romans 9:21-22; Proverbs 16:4; 1 Peter 2:8; etc.
WHAT FRUSTRATES ME
You see brothers and sisters, I think I can finally say that it is not your average, layperson American evangelical that frustrates me anymore. Why should I be upset with them? They've never been taught Scripture; in fact, most of them have never even heard a sermon with Scripture expounded in it, sad to say.
No--what frustrates me are those in teaching positions who teach against the truths of sovereign grace and God's eternal decree, or who ignore these truths because they think they're "not necessary" or "might offend" or are "too mysterious" or are "concerned that it doesn't make God look very nice."
Today, Hank Hanegraaff told millions of listeners in the United States and Canada the following:
*God does not ordain all things (Really? See above.);
*unbelievers can choose Christ with just a little help from the Holy Spirit (Really? See above.);
*God does not guide all things (Really? See above.); and
*the only way man can be held responsible is if God has not decreed it. (Where does the Bible teach that?)
Hank H. is in a teaching position, but Scripture warns us that we should not presume to be teachers, because we will be judged more harshly.
The Scripture is clear on these things. So the next time you hear someone speak against the sovereignty of God in salvation and providence, be a good Berean and search the Scriptures.
May "To the Law and to the Testimony" always be our guiding thought.
Monday, February 06, 2006
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16 comments:
I was curious what Hank's view on Calvinism was. I knew his father was a reformed pastor, but I do not think I have heard him say anything I disagree with. I do think his brilliance is a gift from God. I googled a few words and your blog came up and I thank you for your post. I'll take you at your word as to the quotes but will do more research into Hank's ideas. I am a southern Baptist and a 1.5 point Calvinist :) I respect everyone's opinions and am curious as to yur thought on the folowing question. I believe in the supreme sovereignty of God. And that God controls everything he controls but does not control that which he chooses not to control. If we do not have free will as I understand reformed/calvinistic theology to claim, AND, that God has no set of guidlines by which to elect, then does this process by which he elects equate to a mere lottery for sainthood? (Or did he look through time and "elect" those who would have chose him anyway if they had had free will?) I understand calvinism as the later and that being so, whether our free will is exercised now or in an alternate reality seen only by God, then free will is still the basis by which we choose God. Not his sovereignty.
Thank you for your time. Nothing above should be construed as disinginuous. I really want to know the answer to this to better understand the Calvinism. As you may know one of the SBC Seminary Presidents is Albert Molher, a strick 5 point Calvinist, so yes Baptist can be Calvinists :)
Kevin,
Welcome to The Reformed Oasis!
Thank you for your questions and your kind remarks. I will do my best, by God's grace, to answer them.
First, I would ask you where in Scripture we see the idea that God chooses not to control certain things. It seems to me that we have exactly the opposite. (Reference the Scriptures I listed in this post, but there are many more as well.) Even logically this doesn't seem to make sense. What would one mean if they believed that God didn't control certain things? God holds all things together, and by Him all things consist. Perhaps some further definition and Scripture references would be helpful here from your understanding of things.
Also, Reformed theology in one sense denies that man has free will, but in another sense affirms it. The sense in which man has free will is that he is free to act and make decisions within his character, personality, or nature. For example, a hungry, starving lion will always of its own free will reject the bowl of vegetables. But it is bound to its nature in that sense. Apart from God's saving grace, we will always of our own free will reject the gospel invitation, because we want nothing to do with God. It is our nature to despise Him. Even after we have been born again by God's grace, we still despise God many times. This is why Martin Luther was very up front when someone asked him if he loved God. Luther's telling response was, "Love God? Sometimes I hate him!"
So, the lion is free to choose the vegetables, but it is enslaved to its nature as a meateater. It has free will, but that free will is enslaved.
God's election is not arbitrary. It is based upon God's good pleasure. We do know, however, based upon Romans 9, Ephesians 2, et al, that God did not elect a sinner because He foresaw that the sinner would choose God. In fact, faith itself is a gift from God. This is what we mean when we say that election is unconditional--that the condition of election was nothing inside of the sinner. All are convicts on death row, and the Governor has decided to pardon some. The rest get justice, and those that are chosen receive mercy. But the mercy the elect receive also was because our justice was placed on Christ.
Again, free will cannot be the basis on which we choose God, because we are the hungry, starving lion--but although we are hungry and starving, we don't know that the vegetables are really better than the meat! :0) (This is only for analogy's sake--I am a major meat fan. Hehehe.)
The lion must be changed into a lamb before he will ever choose the vegetables. This is why regeneration, or being born again, must be a sovereign act of God alone. It is just not within our nature to find God and His ways beautiful. This is why Jesus can say that no one "can" come to Him unless the Father who sent Him draws him. And this same person will be raised up at the last day.
I hope this helps. Thank you for your questions. Feel free to ask more or whatever you wish. I like Al Mohler as well. I'm also a Baptist, by God's grace! BTW, have you heard of the Founder's Movement? You could check them out at www.founders.org .
Welcome again dear brother in our Lord and Savior to The Reformed Oasis!
In Christ,
Josh Brisby
The dialogue is beneficial and encouraging. May I humbly submit that my careful study of scripture has revealed that both Calvinism and Arminianism cannot be fully supported beyond a shadow of doubt in scripture, and thus, we need to be very careful when presenting our views in light of scripture. These are two very good theories presented by two godly men, but these men are fallible and so are their theories.
For example, in Matthew 23:37, Jesus said, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will."
From this verse above, the 5-point Calvinist must logically conclude that there is a conflict within the trinity. It seems as though it's the will of Jesus against the will of the Holy Spirit. Let me explain. The Calvinist will state that the Holy Spirit's call is efficacious and irresistable. The human heart simply cannot resist it. If this is the case then how did the children of Israel resist Jesus' call? In the literal translation from the greek text of the verse above, Jesus "willed" that they be gathered to him, but they, being the children of Israel, "willed not". The Calvinist is left with two options. The first option is that even though Jesus wanted to gather the children of Israel to Himself, the Holy Spirit refused to call them because had He done so, they could not have resisted His will. Option 2 is that despite Jesus' call, Israel willingly resisted, which places a gaping hole in their theory.
There are many other scripture references throughout scripture that call to question both theories. This was just one. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts.
Sincerely,
Shawn :-)
Shawn
Your point about Jesus weeping over Jerusalem is well taken. But, you didn't address the verses referenced by Josh. Finding a verse that appears to deny another verse doesn't help (unless you believe the Bible contradicts itself, then what is the point.) First explain how your understanding is compatible with the verses referenced. Then move on to the contrary verses. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of verses that directly support the Calvinist view of God's sovereignty (try reading Isaiah chapters 40-66). The Arminian position is definitely supportable by scripture (as I would hope any Christian understanding), but at the expense of ignoring a majority of the Bible. In other words Arminianism is only supportable "out of context". That being said, no man-created theological system completely satisfies every single biblical verse, not even Calvinism. In the end we admit there are things we just don't know. When you take the Bible in its whole you come up with “God ordains that which men freely choose”. To deny God ordains all things is to deny hundreds of clear passages, “Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it?” (Lam 3:37) To deny that man freely chooses is also to deny hundreds more clear passages, “He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-- you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31) The natural reading would imply the ability to believe. So we are left with affirming both of these positions. To quote D.A. Carson in his “How Long O’ Lord”:
The Bible as a whole, and sometimes in specific texts, presupposes or teaches that both of the following propositions are true:
1. God is absolutely sovereign, but his sovereignty never functions in such a way that human responsibility is curtailed, minimized, or mitigated.
2. Human beings are morally responsible creatures – they significantly choose, rebel, obey, believe, defy, make decisions, and so forth, and they are rightly held accountable for such actions; but this characteristic never functions so as to make God absolutely contingent.
…The view that both of these propositions are true I shall call compatibilism.
Hey Robert,
Thanks for your response, but you've misunderstood my position and didn't really answer my question regarding the passage in Matthew. Don't be worried because it's not the first time.
For the record, I believe God is completely sovereign over the events of the universe. The difference here is that the Calvinist will misappropriate God's sovereignty to the extent that He actually overrides the human will (Irrestiable Grace). What I'm proposing is that in God's sovereignty, He accounts for human freedom and still accomplishes His purposes, which is different than the Calvinist.
How could someone belittle the work of Calvary's cross and state that Christ's atonement is limited to the "elect"? What about John 3:16-17? In 1 John 2:2, John tells us, "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
I could go on for hours, but I'll end by paraprhasing Augustine. In the essentials - unity, in the non-essentials - liberty, and in all things - charity. We're all brothers in Christ who have been saved by God's grace through Jesus Christ.
P.S. I couldn't find the scripture references that you were referring to about Josh. If you could help me find them, I'd be glad to address them.
Shawn
Point of order Anonymous,
the quote you attributed to Augustine actually originated with Peter Meiderlin (aka Rupertus Meldenius), a Lutheran pastor from the 17th Century.
Regarding effectual calling / irresistible grace, read John's account of the resurrection of Lazarus and Ezekiel's account of the valley of dry bones.
I think people are attracted to Calvinism because they want to believe they are better then everyone else. The Calvinist holes up in his little church and looks down his nose at everyone else just like the rich man in the country club.
Terrible entry, as you didn't even know what exactly he said. True, Hank is not a Calvinist, but calm down. You come off arrogant.
May I interject a thought.
FIRST OF ALL IT IS MUCH EASIER TO UNDERSTAND GOD'S CHARACTER THAN TO THINK TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD. HIS "WAYS MAY BE PAST FINDING OUT" BUT HIS CHARACTER OF LOVE IS NOT.
GOD GAVE ADAM & EVE "CHOICE TO SERVE HIM", (IN PERFECTION, IN THE GARDEN BEFORE SIN)
SCRIPTURE IS VERY CLEAR, EVE WAS DECEIVED, BUT ADAM MADE A WILFULL, PREMEDIATED CHOICE TO SIN.
GOD ALLOWED SIN TO ENTER BY FREE CHOICE AND HE ESTABLISHES SALVATION ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE OF "CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE".
SCRIPTURE MUST BE ALLOWED TO BE IT'S OWN INTEREPTER, MAN'S IDEAS OF WHAT THIS VERSE IS SAYING VERSES WHAT THAT VERSE IS SAYING DIVIDES GOD'S CHILDREN, ALL THINKING THEY ARE RIGHT.
LET GOD BE TRUE TO HIS CHARACTER OF LOVE AND HIS WORD SPEAKS ONLY ONE TRUTH, AND THEN WE AS GOD'S CHILDREN PUT OUR BELIEFS INTO AGREEMENT WITH GOD'S WORD.
AT THE END OF ALL DISCUSSIONS THERE IS STILL ONLY ONE TRUTH.
All 5 points of Calvinism are completely wrong.
I believe in eternal security but where in the Bible does it say the saints will persevere? It never says that. It says God will preserve us. Lot certainly didnt live a very good life but he still went to heaven. We are promised everlasting life when we get saved so we can't lose our salvation but the Bible never says we will persevere.
You quoted John 6:44 but you didnt quote John 12:32.
John 6:44 " 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 12:32 "32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
The Calvinist believes everybody who is drawn gets saved but if that were the case then everybody is saved because John 12:32 says he will draw all men. It says all men so it is ridiculous to say "Well that means all men that will get saved." John 6:44 says a person can come can come can come CAN COME...CAN COME. It doesnt say they have to come. We can come if God draws us & John 12:32 says God draws all men. So everybody is drawn and we can come. God doesn't force us to believe.
That is a real loving God that sends people to hell without giving them a chance.
John 6:44 doesn't say, "can come", it says, "NO ONE can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
This is not a statement of man's choice... its a statement of God's ability, and of man's natural inability.
The author of the post two sections above appears to be assuming that folks by nature have the ability to ‘come’ to Christ [have faith].
LET ME ANSWER THAT:
The final statement in the post was sarcastic. I will therefore re-word it in order make it more approachable:
“A real loving God would not send people to hell without giving them a chance.”
TRY TO FOLLOW ME HERE:
I ask myself as Sproul does, “Self, why did you receive Christ and not your friend Sam?”
Answer: Ephesians 2:8,9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God…”
Therefore, I must have faith to be saved, but even my faith is given to me from God as a free gift, so the question should rather be:
“Self, why does God give you faith and not your friend Sam? Are you smarter, better-looking, nicer…more humble?”
If it is for any of these reasons, then I can boast. Thankfully, it is for no other reason than God loved me and hated Sam before we were yet born!
I AM ALMOST THERE:
Romans 9:11-13 “…for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls, it was said to her [Rebecca], “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Romans 9:18-20 “He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, ‘Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?’ But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?”
Verse 20 is written directly to the anonymous poster to whom this post referrs (and to myself since I often whine like a baby and call God unloving/unfair)
HERE IT IS:
God’s own choosing is the only factor involved in determining who gets saving faith and who does not!
Those who dare to call the Biblical GOD of unconditional election 'unloving', are given a quick slap on the wrist by Romans 9:20.
PS: Neither these points, nor the words of the Bible, will change an opinion. Presuppositions are broken only by the Holy Spirit.
I have been studying this issue of predestination vs. free will for quite some time now. While I believe in the sovereignty of God, God allows things to happen that he doesn't approve of. God does not control all things, because Satan is given power to rule over this world for a time (Ephesians 6:12). God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, yet He did not approve of their actions, and He was grieved at the wickedness of man. If God wanted to control everything, he would, but, apparently that was not His plan. Also, in regards to election not being based on foreknowledge in Romans 9 and Ephesians 2, it is mentioned in Romans 8:29 and 1 Peter 1:2 that it was based on the foreknowledge of God. Saying that it was not based on foreknowledge is a contradiction to Scripture. Also, any time Jesus speaks of election, He does not mention that someone CANNOT accept Christ, but rather that they WILL NOT accept Christ. Man is unable to save himself, but I do believe that, with the help of the Holy Spirit, he is able to accept the calling from God, which is given to all men (John 12:32). Also, if election is based solely on a lottery, why would it be required that in order to be an elder, his children must be believers. If a man's child was not chosen, how can that be held against him? (Titus 1:6). I am not a five point Arminianist, but I don't believe that Christ died only to save certain individuals, but that He died to save everyone who would come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Josh,
Thanks for the excellent post! I'm a huge fan of Hank's, but would fault him on this. I'm a 5-pointer all the way and guard against those who would misquote scripture. I feel Hank might have been speaking of hyper-Calvinist thought, but here, three years later, I'll never know. If he indeed denies the reformed view of grace, I'm truly disappointed. Like you said, scripture is clear! Thanks again for the post. Very pithy and usable.
This has bothered me about Hank for years. He is critical of those who set up straw men arguments, then he sets up a straw man when he implies Canvinism is fatalistic. He is right when he says JW's should not deny the doctrine of the trinity because they cannot understand it. Then he denies God's sovereign control over all, essentially because he cannot understand it.
Ben says...
"PS: Neither these points, nor the words of the Bible, will change an opinion. Presuppositions are broken only by the Holy Spirit."
Very true. But I'm sure you will agree the Spirit will use His Word to do so. I write as a former Arminian BTW. R.C. Sproul's Chosen By God helped me a lot. So I should add that I don't want to sound arrogant about this. it's only by God's Grace that I have come to this understanding. However God's foreordaining all is not an excuse for those who disagree. God is sovereign and I am responsible. Hank and every other Christian should not reject this mystery any more than A JW should not reject the trinity.
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